Questions for the education panel
After the presentations from the four panelists, the audience took part in a lively Q&A session. Frankly, Chairman Lee got hammered pretty hard by the group, and he handled their questions very well. I have to hand it to him for coming to a venue which might be expected to be pretty skeptical about the public school system he helps oversee.
Student interestsIn answer to a high school student's question [unfortunately I didn't catch it], Lee said he wants to promote online self-study and more relevant course material even at very young ages. He is also in favor of more peer collaboration and peer tutoring. "One of the things we miss is what really we should be doing to hold and enhance the attention of students," he said, and asked the student for her ideas. She said "maybe not as much books" -- Lee says "Yes!" -- "and shorter classes, since the ADD students are mixed in with the regular students." She said her sister goes to the John Locke Foundation's lunchtime
Shaftesbury Society lectures and they are much more interesting than the books the schools use.
An older gentleman disagreed with this sort of concern, saying "Our heads are in the sand and the tail is wagging the dog, worrying about keeping the students happy. We need to be focused on giving them what they need to learn. She needs to be made to do the work she needs to achieve and be successful, and not asked 'What do you want to do today, dear?'
"The highest percentage of kids on grade level [in the counties I researched] was Cumberland County 57%, Robeson 27%. How in God's name do you expect kids to do anything if you socially promote them and you can't hire them to do anything? I was a business owner and I hired high school graduates who couldn't fill out the application forms. I believe you are trying to do your job, Mr. Lee, but I'm just telling you like it is."
Dropout statisticsA man on the front row seconded Stoops' call for better statistics, saying that DPI reported 95% graduation rates until last February, when it suddenly dropped to 68%. "What bothers
me," said Lee, "is whether that dropout rate is real either. If that kid leaves the school and enrolls in the community college, he's counted as a dropout but I don't think so."
A recent relocation to the state said he is substitute teaching in the local schools and said in his view, "Chaos in the schools starts at the top." Lee expressed concern that the problem is with local boards which are not performing. Stoops immediately disagreed, referencing the
Teacher Working Conditions Survey, saying that the governor, SBE, and DPI, focus on pay and benefits rather than the teachers' stated concern about incompetent administration and leadership. Lee had already stated that until we can make teaching more attractive, safe, decently paid, people are going to make another choice and teacher turnover would remain high.
"At the same time, you're completely wrong saying we don't prioritize this," said Lee. "We cannot ignore the fact that teacher pay is an important part of what we do. Keep in mind this is an initiative for Governor Easley and he said it will be a priority for the state board."
Lee challenged the questioner why he was substituting instead of full time; the listener said he tried but was told there was not a high need for history teachers, like he was in West Virginia. Lee said, "You contact my office; you've been given bad information."
Support for charters but not those charters"When the charter school movement started in North Carolina, the state board threw out charters like apples coming off a tree, because they were under pressure from the legislature," said Lee. "What I want to do is have a methodical approach, not a blue ribbon commission ..." He said again that he didn't care how many charter schools there are if they are done the way he envisions. He was asked then why not support removing the cap on charters now? He said the commission is a six month project only but left the question somewhat open.
Item: Howard Lee said he purchases a lottery ticket every week. Lee said the legislature's current education budget is "ugly!" and the board is looking to help them "pretty it up".
Labels: CLC, Education
Performance, preparation, and violence in education
Friday's education panel included
Howard Lee, chairman of the State Board of Education, and
Dr. Terry Stoops, education analyst for the John Locke Foundation, as well as
Senator Harry Brown and
Representative Dale Folwell of the General Assembly.
Howard Lee says he is working to gain more authority for the SBE to take over school systems from local boards which are taken up by internal strife. He asserts that "Public schools
are working". He praised the "
Learn and Earn" program and agreed with the call for more "themed high schools".
"If there's one thing I hope we in NC can get away from, it's the mega-high-schools where kids can get lost," he said.
Alternatives to traditional schools
"I am a very strong advocate for charter schools," said Chairman Lee. "I am not an advocate for some of the charter schools we have now.
"I don't think we can build enough buildings to accommodate the growth we have and expect every child in a classroom. That's why I support virtual schools where a gifted and talented student can accelerate themselves through the system. We can no longer require students to put in seat time; the thing that concerns me is the kids that are dropping out is not just slow learning kids, some are very smart kids who are bored to tears."
The new testing review commission will have its first meeting in two weeks, "determine where we are, how many of these tests are useless, and create a system where teachers can get immediate feedback rather than waiting for the end of the year."
In the next 30 days he will have a charter school review commission. "I want the charter schools who are not performing off the books. The idea of the charter school was freedom from the red tape, not that they should not meet standards. If they do that, we don't need to care about the number. I don't care if we have a thousand, if they are performing ... " he said.
"Think with me for a minute," Lee continued. "When we went to school, the community felt ownership of the schools ... we have lost that. Parents are not engaged, the community is not engaged, in some case the schools
encourage the community not to be engaged."
He cited constant turnover of teachers and weak community support as continuing problems. "Our goal has to be to prepare students to function in the world, not just in North Carolina or their community," he said. "Guess what, the car that is now number one in the world is Toyota; if we're going to be engaged in that business, we better be able to speak a little Japanese and understand the Japanese culture ..."
School violence is not adequately documentedDr. Terry Stoops of the Locke Foundation mused that "we are so willing to close down charter schools but not regular schools." Lee interjected "That was the part I left out of my remarks."
Stoops said he'd like to use his time for a rebuttal, but he chose to focus on school violence issues. He said there is a rising awareness that school crime statistics have been "grossly inaccurate".
According to him, in 2005, a Colorado school claimed no crime the same year a student was stabbed to death in the cafeteria. The largest school district in NC reported one sex crime in the 2004-2005 school year, but actually apologized for the administrative oversight when it was published there were several serious and literally hundreds of minor sexual offenses. In some cases, crimes were never reported because the school could not identify the offender.
Why is this happening? "It is an era of accountability. A school not doing well in testing but wishing to show improvement in some area can fudge on crime statistics to claim they are creating a safer school environment," Stoops said. There are also questions of definitions of certain crimes and violence.
We need better data and information, and make sure DPI is accurately reporting this stuff, he said. "We have programs like Positive Behavior Management that we don't have rigorous analysis to tell us whether these programs are working or not."
Stoops mentioned the media did not report that charter schools had a 30% decrease in suspensions while district schools reported increases. District schools reported 3.1 suspensions per 10 male students, while charter schools only experienced 1 per 10.
Every Child Ready to Learn"If we have one goal in public schools, it should be not to humiliate a child," said Rep. Folwell of Winston-Salem. He has introduced
an eight-word bill to change the cutoff date for kindergarten from October 16 to August 31. He said that North Carolina's public school classrooms have the largest age span of nearly any in the nation and it is a difficult prospect for a 4-year-old to be sharing a classroom with a 6-year-old.
He also called for a unique student identifier which would allow the Employment Security Commission to link a person's work history with his school record, all the way back to kindergarten. He said this is already in place in some states. This gives me some concern but I can't comment right now.
Labels: CLC, Education
Just one question, Mr. Mayor ...
Rudy Giuliani was our lunchtime speaker and was genial, well-spoken, connected with the crowd, and all the other things that are said about the mayor. He delivered several applause lines on his strongest issues, which of course are security and governmental reform. One of them, though, left a question hanging, and though I tried to get in on the brief Q&A session at the close, we got cut off at three questions only.
Giuliani spoke of his experience and frustration attempting to reform the New York City public school system, and said he was "starry eyed" to think that he could expect the same success he'd scored with emergency services, social welfare programs, and other big governmental projects. No such luck with the school systems.
He said the turning point in his thinking was when the Children's Scholarship Fund offered 2500 grants to allow parents to enroll their children in private or parochial schools. When the public school authorities refused to allow the CSF information to be distributed in the public school systems, Giuliani said he couldn't override them -- he only controlled two votes on the seven-member board.
Even with very little promotion, though, the CSF program received 168 thousand applications. What does that say?
He argues that since we are already going to spend the money, from $6000 to over $20 thousand (for special needs children), why not increase the alternatives and options available to families, beyond the public schools in their district of residence?
There was much applause because many of us here support the idea of educational reform, expanded alternatives such as public school choice, charter schools, and even tax credits or vouchers to help families direct the funding where they believe their children will be best served. However, Giuliani is not running for mayor or governor, he's a candidate for president, so my unasked (and therefore unanswered) question is:
What is the role of the federal government in an endeavor which is historically and Constitutionally a state and local issue?See Amendment 10.
UPDATE: Joseph Coletti and I have some back-and-forth on Giuliani and schools in
The Locker Room here,
here,
here, and
here.
Links:Reason & Revelation: Lunch with GiulianiLabels: CLC, Education